‘Fox News Sunday’ on November 28, 2021


This is a rush transcript of “Fox News Sunday” on November 28, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  I’m Trace Gallagher, in for Chris 

Wallace. 

A new coronavirus variant sends markets plummeting, as the world races to 

contain and assess the threats. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  We don’t know a lot about the 

variant, except it is a great concern, seems to spread rapidly. 

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Stocks and oil plunge as new COVID fears rattle 

markets. Countries rushed to restrict flights and impose new travel limits 

as scientists determine the effectiveness of current vaccines on the new 

variant. 

We’ll ask National Institutes of Health director, Dr. Frances Collins, what 

this means for public health, and ask top economist Mohamed El-Erian about 

the impact on the pandemic recovery. 

And — 

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY):  We need to fund the government. The deadline is 

December 3rd. 

GALLAGHER:  From avoiding a government shutdown to raising the debt limit 

and passing a critical defense spending bill, lawmakers return to lengthy 

to-do list. We’ll discuss with top Republican leader in the Senate, John 

Barrasso in Wyoming. It’s a “FOX News Sunday” exclusive.

Then, the Biden administration expected to reinstate the controversial 

“Remain in Mexico” policy, undoing a key immigration promise. We’ll ask our 

Sunday panel about the ongoing crisis at the southern border. 

Plus, our Power Player of the Week, Chris, once again dances with turkeys. 

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  Gobble, gobble, gobble — 

GALLAGHER:  All right now on “FOX News Sunday”. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GALLAGHER:  And hello again from FOX News.

The Biden administration has ordered new travel restrictions from South 

Africa and seven other countries starting tomorrow in response to a new 

coronavirus variant. World health officials have designated the variant 

Omicron and have warned against overreaction. But its detection ahs sparked 

a new wave of global anxiety, as cases popped up in multiple countries just 

days after first being identified.

In a moment, we’ll ask head of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. 

Frances Collins, what we know so far about the threat of Omicron. 

But, first, let’s turn to Jacqui Heinrich. She’s traveling with the 

president in Nantucket with more on the Biden administration’s reaction — 

Jacqui. 

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Trace, there was quick action 

from the White House is announcing those travel restrictions but less 

urgency in imposing them, leaving an entire weekend until they take effect. 

President Biden said that was his medical team’s advice. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEINRICH (voice-over): President Biden urging Americans to get vaccinated 

and if eligible, get booster shots after shutting down travel to eight 

African countries to keep Omicron from spreading. 

BIDEN:  We always talk about whether this is about freedom. I think it is 

patriotic responsibility. 

HEINRICH:  The CDC says, so far, it hasn’t tracked any cases of Omicron in 

the U.S. The White House top doctor, Anthony Fauci, says it may already be 

here. 

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR:  I would not be surprised if it is. It 

almost invariably, it’s ultimately going to go essentially all over. 

HEINRICH:  No more travel restrictions are expected yet. 

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  We’ll take it one step 

at a time, but as of now, we’ve done what we believe is necessary. 

HEINRICH:  Other countries are ramping up efforts to contain the virus. 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson imposing stricter rules for masking 

and testing international travelers after two cases were detected. 

BORIS JOHNSON, UK PRIME MINISTER:  We will require all contacts of those 

who test positive with suspected case of Omicron to self-isolate for 10 

days regardless of your vaccination status. 

HEINRICH:  Israel shut down its border to foreigners, entirely, spooked 

over a single Omicron case. Vaccine manufacturers are already mobilizing. 

Pfizer says a shot of a vaccine resistant strain would take 100 days. 

Moderna, already testing a high dose booster, is working on Omicron-

specific shot. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEINRICH: President Biden says no more mandates are ahead at this time. 

But Omicron’s emergence is adding urgency to the administration’s 

vaccination efforts and it’s happening against backdrop of sinking poll 

numbers, plunging markets and multiple year-end deadlines in congress — 

Trace. 

GALLAGHER:  A lot of changes. Jacqui Heinrich reporting from Nantucket — 

Jacqui, thank you. 

Joining us now, National Institutes of Health Director, Dr. Francis 

Collins. 

Doctor, welcome back to “Fox News Sunday.” Good morning to you, sir.

What do we need to know about the Omicron variant, is it more contagious? 

Will it lead to more severe disease? Your thoughts, sir.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH DIRECTOR:  Well, those 

are the right questions, Trace. And this is early enough that it’s hard to 

be sure we know the answers and that’s what a lot of us are spending our 

time on. Over the last three days I think I’ve been on Zoom calls and phone 

calls pretty much continuously.

GALLAGHER:  Yes.

COLLINS:  We do know that this is a variant that has a lot of mutations, 

like 50 of them and more than 30 of those in the spike protein, which is 

the part of the virus that attaches to your human cells if you get 

infected, that is a new record in terms of the number of mutations. It does 

make you worry, therefore, that it’s a sufficiently different virus, that 

it might not respond as well to protection from the vaccines. But we don’t 

know that.

We can certainly see that in South Africa and a few neighboring countries 

in south part of Africa, this does seem to be spreading quite rapidly, so 

the inference would be there that it’s particularly contagious. We don’t 

know about its severity, trying to collect that data as quickly as 

possible.

GALLAGHER:  Yes. I’m interested, when you talk about spiked proteins, it 

tends to confuse people. When you say various mutations and spiked 

proteins, specifically, sir, what do you mean by that?

COLLINS:  So remember the picture of this virus, that it has these spikes 

on its surface, which are made up of protein, that’s the part of the virus 

that has to find a receptor on your cell to get inside. So there’s sort of 

a lock and a key there. And this one is, apparently, able to still do that, 

it’s infecting people. But the shape of that protein is different because 

of these 30 plus mutations so that it looks a little different.

So if you’ve raised the antibodies against that from previously being 

infected or from being vaccinated, the question is will those antibodies 

still stick to this version of the spiked protein or will it evade that 

protection? We need to find that out. To be honest though, that’s going to 

take two or three weeks in both laboratory and field studies to figure out 

the answer and that’s what all of us, as scientist, want to know.

GALLAGHER:  And very quickly because I know you say you don’t really know 

much about this variant. But when you have these doctors in the South 

African Medical Association, including one who actually spotted this 

variant down in South Africa, and he says, you know, the symptoms tend to 

be mild. Is it too early to make that declaration?

COLLINS:  I think it’s too early, Trace. I think the initial cases were 

mostly young people who tend to have mild infections anyway. We need more 

data there before we could say confidently that this is not a severe 

version of the virus. But we should find that out in the next couple of 

weeks.

GALLAGHER:  So Dr. Collins, let’s move on now. The president has put a 

travel ban in eighth South African countries, let’s put those on the 

screen. Here’s the vaccination rates of those countries. You can see, they 

go all the way up to 27 percent in Lesotho, and then all the way down to 

3.2 percent in Malawi, which is extraordinarily low.

The former Biden adviser, Dr. Zeke Emanuel, said the following, and I’m 

quoting here, “Restricting travel is going to slow its coming, not stop it 

from coming.The face that it’s coming here is inevitable. The environment 

in which it comes may not be inevitable. We can alter the environment.”

And if it’s just a case of trying to slow it down, Dr. Collins, why not put 

in place more travel bans? Because the people in South Africa, some of the 

government officials there, feel like they’re being singled out, feel like 

this is a little bit discriminatory against them.

COLLINS:  Well, I think it is a difficult decision, Trace, and this is just 

the best advice of the public health experts. And you’ll notice other 

countries like the U.K. and the E.U. are doing the same.

Keep in mind, of course, that everybody who’s a foreign traveler coming to 

the U.S. has to have a test, three days in advance if you’re vaccinated, 

one day in advance if you’re unvaccinated. So we are screening travelers 

from everywhere. But given the current circumstance, out of an abundance of 

caution, seeing that this is the most serious new variant that we’ve seen 

in several months, it made sense for — at least for a temporary measure, 

we’re not going to say this is going to be there for a long time to block 

travel from those countries where we know Omicron is already spreading.

GALLAGHER:  Yes, we talked about the vaccination rates in some of these 

South African countries. I want to put up the vaccination rates and booster 

rates from this country, Doctor, because it’s kind of a fascinating look 

here, 59.1 percent vaccination — that’s fully vaccinated, 19.1 percent of 

boosters.

And the question is, will the vaccines need to be modified for Omicron? I 

mean — and if they do need to be modified, why would people get the 

booster tomorrow when they might have to get a brand-new booster in 30 

days, in two months?

COLLINS:  Well, Trace, I’m glad we’re talking about this. For Americans 

listening to this right now, this is an action you can take, if you’re not 

vaccinated yet or if you haven’t gotten your booster. It’s clear that in 

all the previous examples of variants, the vaccines have worked to provide 

protection and the boosters have provided especially strong protection 

against things like Delta.

Given that history, we expect that most likely the current vaccines will be 

sufficient to provide protection and especially the boosters will give that 

additional layer of protection, because there’s something about the booster 

that causes your immune system to really expand its capacity against all 

kinds of different spike proteins, even ones it hasn’t seen before.

So please, Americans, if you’re one of those folks who are sort of waiting 

to see, this would be a great time to sign up, get your booster. Or if you 

haven’t been vaccinate already, get started. Omicron is one more reason to 

do this.

Now, if we need a new vaccine designed specifically against Omicron, Pfizer 

and Moderna are already in the process of designing that, but that’s going 

to be at least three months or so to come into being, if we have to do it. 

All of us hope we don’t need to do that.

GALLAGHER:  So you think it will be modified but for now, for the time 

being, vaccines we have are working just fine.

I want to put up the four states and their vaccination rates because that 

really kind of gives us an idea here of where we’re going. You see 

Michigan, 54 percent vaccination rate. A new case rate of 59 percent. 

Maine, kind of the same thing, very high vaccination rate, high new cases. 

New York 68, 22. You look at the bottom there, Dr. Collins, you have 

Florida, 61 percent vaccination rate, down in cases. You know, it was only 

a couple of months ago the media was giving Florida an awful hard time, 

saying that Ron DeSantis’ policies were all wrong.

What’s going on here? Why are some of the states with some of the most 

severe lockdowns and mandates doing poorly and states like Florida that 

have virtually mandates doing quite well?

COLLINS:  Well, it all comes down to who is actually getting the disease 

and, especially, who’s getting sick enough to be in the hospital or to die. 

Keep in mind, getting a mild case of the illness certainly happens as 

breakthroughs from the vaccinated folks, although boosters really help 

prevent that. But if you’re talking about who is in the hospital and who is 

dying, those are still the unvaccinated people and there are lots of those 

in all the states you just mentioned.

If there’s a lesson here it’s, come on, America, we have missed the chance 

to be at a much higher level of vaccination across the country that would 

put us in a stronger position. For all those reasons of misinformation that 

people have heard, we’ve not done what we should have done to protect 

ourselves.

If Omicron is one more wake-up call then let’s wake up and, come on, 

America, you can do this. These vaccines are safe. They’re effective. 

People have been using them for more than a year, 200 million people plus 

have gotten injected. These are something you want for yourself, your 

family, your community.

GALLAGHER:  Yes. Dr. Collins, I’ve got about a minute left here. We talk a 

lot about these antiviral pills, Merck and Pfizer, and some of them say, 

look, these are game-changers. These pills are game-changers. Do you worry 

that when they come out with these new pills and they are as effective as 

what we’re being told, that it will lessen people’s need or hurry to get 

this vaccine?

COLLINS:  It does worry me, Trace, although it would not be a rationale 

conclusion because these are pills that you would take if you are shown to 

be infected. You don’t want to be infected. This — take the analogy, do 

you want to wear your seat belt or just forget that and count on the 

emergency room to patch up your broken bones? I think the seat belt is a 

better deal. The vaccines are your seats belt, use them.

If for some reason you still get sick, it will be great to have these 

antivirals. I am tickled to see them emerging. Molnupiravir, the Merck 

drug, will be debated on Tuesday, the Pfizer drug, PAXLOVID, is not far 

behind. It’s great that we’re going to have something like that. But that 

is not the whole answer. Prevention is better than treatment.

GALLAGHER:  Yes, it is a bit of good news. Dr. Francis Collins, thank you 

for joining us, sir. We appreciate it.

COLLINS:  Glad to be with you, Trace.

GALLAGHER:  Yes.

Up next, shoppers are back in the stores as new virus worries rise. We’ll 

discuss how the new variant could complicate the U.S. recovery with leading 

voice in the financial world, Mohamed El-Erian is next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GALLAGHER:  Wall Street fears over the new coronavirus variant overshadowed 

any post-Thanksgiving Black Friday headlines. The Dow plunging hundreds of 

points, its worst showing of the year with travel and energy stocks hit the 

hardest. It’s another setback for President Biden who had attempted to 

signal economic stability this week by appointing his Federal Reserve chair 

for a second term. 

Joining us now, Mohamed El-Erian, who led PIMCO for years and is now the 

chief economic advisor at Allianz. 

And, Dr. El-Erian, thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it.

I want to put these numbers up on the board from Friday. This is kind of 

what we were dealing with. You had the Dow down 2.5 percent. The energy 

sector down, you know, almost 4 percent, a little more than 4 percent. The 

oil down 13 percent.

What do you make of this? Is the market uncertainty because every time 

there’s a travel ban put in place, we tend to realize that soon to follow 

might be more lockdowns? Is that what’s happening here?

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER AT ALLIANZ:  Yes. So — and it’s 

happening the world. The marketplace is worried about two things: one, that 

yet another variant of COVID is going to hit them hard, we travel less, we 

go out to restaurants less, and we may have additional restrictions that 

are imposed on us. That’s issue number one. 

And issue number two, the marketplace is worried also that this will cause 

more inflation, that supply chain will be disrupted even more. 

Those two things together, Trace — lower growth, high inflation are 

stagflation, and that’s what the market is worried about right now. 

GALLAGHER:  Yeah. We’re going to get your take more on inflation coming up. 

But I just want to briefly touch on the fact that the recent job numbers 

were pretty encouraging. Still, clearly, too many jobs, not enough people 

to fill those jobs. 

When you think about, you know, politics coming back this week. You know, 

senators back in tomorrow, the House back in Tuesday. We’re talking about 

the social spending bill. 

Is this a time in your estimation, Doctor, that — that we should be 

injecting trillions of dollars into the economy, dealing with inflation? 

EL-ERIAN:  Trace, this is a controversial issue because it has a good side 

and a bad side. The good side is that it helps on the labor market. The 

problem we have in the labor market is not that we have a loss of 

employment, is that we have too many people outside the labor market. They 

need to be attracted back in. 

And what the bill does, it tries to increase labor force interpretation, it 

helps on the supply side. 

The issue that people have is yes, that’s great, but what about demand 

side? Are you really want to — you want to put more dollars in economy 

that’s already running hot? 

I think, net-net, when you balance these two things, you want to go ahead 

because you really want to help the supply side and Federal Reserve has to 

do more to compensate on the demand side. 

GALLAGHER:  Yeah, you have been critical of the Fed and the way they have 

handled inflation in some of your writings. We’ll get to that in one 

second.

Of course, the president, kind of, kept status quo. He nominated Jay Powell 

to remain the chair of the Fed here. 

You write the following in “The Financial Times” on Thursday. Quoting here: 

The continued sidelining of the inflation threat by the Fed risks making 

things worse by de-anchoring inflationary expectations due to the 

persistent of extremely loose monetary policy. Record — record easy 

financial conditions, according to weekly Goldman Sachs index of them, and 

the lack of adequate forward policy guidance. 

So, do you think this was time for a change at the Fed? 

EL-ERIAN:  I think it’s time for a change in policy at the Fed, and I was 

of the view that this may be easier with someone who hasn’t repeated over 

and over again that inflation is transitory, don’t worry about it, it’s 

going away. 

Inflation is not transitory and it’s really important for the Fed to 

realize this, because the worst thing that can happen is that in addition 

to the supply disruption, which they can’t do anything about, in addition 

to labor shortages, they destabilize our expectations and we change 

behavior even faster. Companies increase prices faster, wage earners insist 

on higher wages, even more, and next thing you know, you got a cycle of 

inflation. That’s what we need to avoid. 

GALLAGHER:  When you say not transitory and a cycle of inflation, I’m 

wondering how long you think that drags on? Is it permanent? 

I mean, when you give somebody a raise, it’s not like you’re going to take 

that raise back in a year. When you’re selling a sandwich for 12 bucks now, 

it’s not like you’re going to sell that sandwich for $11.50 six months down 

the line. 

So, when you see these costs go up, how long before we might see some 

pressure ease off of those inflationary gauges? 

EL-ERIAN:  So, we will see these second round effects you talk about. 

People asking for higher wages in order to maintain their purchasing power, 

companies raising prices in order to maintain their margins and it will go 

on well into next year, and then it will ease, but ease for the wrong 

reason. 

What I’m worried about is that it will ease because the Fed is going to 

have to hit the brakes. 

Trace, we haven’t got a single historical experience in which the Fed has 

been led to the policy challenge and has not caused recession. So, rather 

than hit the brakes hard next year, it’s much easier to ease your foot off 

the accelerator starting now. 

GALLAGHER:  Yeah. We think — talking about gauges, a good gauge, you know, 

we haven’t really seen the numbers yet. We’ll see those probably tomorrow 

or Tuesday, but you talk about Black Friday, and some of the financial 

headlines. We’re saying that Black Friday was busy, but not really Black 

Friday busy. 

Is it because we’re holding back or is it because we were told to shop 

because of supply chain crisis, we were told to shop early and we did? What 

do you make of what you’re seeing so far? 

EL-ERIAN:  I think the latter has a lot to do with it, people were worried 

about supplies in the last two months, and we saw a big jump in retail 

sales that came earlier than a lot of people expected. So, I think quite a 

few people accelerated their purchases.

I don’t think we have issue with demand. I think incomes are strong, retail 

sales are strong. Companies have lots of money. 

The problem is the supply side. And unless we fix supply side, it will 

contaminate the demand side. So, that’s why it’s really important to focus 

on two big issues that we have. Supply disruptions and inflation. 

GALLAGHER:  Yeah. And you talk about inflation, one of the biggest 

indicators is gas prices. I mean, I was — I tell you people outside the 

door, it’s, you know, $5.60 a gallon. 

On one hand, you have president tapping these oil reserves, you know, 

adding 50 million barrels of oil to the market, on the other hand, he wants 

to make it more expensive to drill for oil on federal property. 

How do you square the two, Dr. Erian? 

EL-ERIAN:  So, we are in this funny period, where we have transition 

issues. We’re moving away from fossil fuel, coal, oil and we’re moving 

somewhere else that hasn’t been built up yet. So, the middle part gets 

enormous pressure, and that’s what you’re seeing with gas prices, for 

example, record gas prices. Why? Because of this transition. 

It is a transition. It will go away. In the meantime, the administration is 

trying to lessen it not only by releasing supplies but also asking other 

countries to do the same, and that’s what we saw last week. It will have 

marginal impact. It won’t have a permanent impact, but it’s very important 

signaling, 

GALLAGHER:  Yeah, signals. You know, we got about 45 seconds left here, Dr. 

El-Erian. What’s biggest takeaway right now from the economy. What’s the 

biggest warning you have? 

EL-ERIAN:  Take inflation seriously because it can by itself derail our 

economic recovery. 

GALLAGHER:  Dr. El-Erian, thank you for joining us, sir. We appreciate it. 

EL-ERIAN:  Thank you. 

GALLAGHER:  Well, up next, news of the new variant complicates a packed 

agenda as lawmakers return to Capitol Hill. We’ll discuss. The third 

ranking Senate Republican when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GALLAGHER:  Well, the new COVID variant is yet another hurdle in an 

otherwise decidedly busy time in Washington. The Senate set to return 

tomorrow, the House on Tuesday. Lawmakers have just a few days to avert a 

government shutdown and a little more than two weeks to raise the limit on 

borrowing or default for the first time in the nation’s history while 

Democrats face their own self-imposed year-end deadline to pass the 

president’s Build Back Better plan with likely no Republican support.

With us now from Wyoming, the number three Republican in the Senate, John 

Barrasso. He is a senator.

Welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY, sir.

We’ve got a lot of politics to talk about. As we said, you know, you’re 

going back to work tomorrow. The House comes back on Tuesday.

But, very quickly, a lot of breaking news on the Omicron variant. You’re a 

medical doctor as well, Senator Barrasso. Give us your quick take. Are you 

concerned about the new variant coming possibly, maybe already here, in the 

United States?

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): Well, you know, as a doctor, I am pro-vaccine 

and I’m anti the mandate. Vaccines work. We have a new variant. There’s 

going to continue to be new variants in the future. Medicines are better 

now than they have been. 

But I think the president was wrong with his mandate. I think it was a 

monumental overreach. And I think it’s actually hardened people against the 

vaccine. And the president has divided the country because of the mandate. 

Now you have a couple of governors saying, oh, two shots isn’t enough. Now 

you have to have three. 

The thing that are interesting about this, the last guest just talked about 

the inflation that we have. We have 10 million job openings in this country 

and yet the president, with his mandate, wants to fire people who have been 

going to work every day since the pandemic started. People who may not want 

to get the vaccine. Police officers, fire fighters, nurses, border patrol. 

So that’s one part of it. 

The other is, Joe Biden ran for office basically hiding in his basement 

saying he could protect America from Covid. Well, he didn’t. He can’t. And 

more people have died of Covid under President Biden than did in all of 

2020. 

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: And we are going to talk about that 

coming up with the panel. 

Meantime, the Build Back Better bill, you’ve got a lot of stuff going on 

this week up on The Hill. Senator, what’s the status of that? Where do you 

think it’s going? Is it — is it now time to inject trillions of dollars 

back into the economy? 

BARRASSO: No, we have record inflation right now. I view this as a back-

breaking bill for the country with the kind of expenses, the spending, the 

adding to the debt, the inflation, the taxes that are going to hit the 

American people. 

And, you know, for Joe Biden to say we have to spend even more money on top 

of inflation, I mean, to me, this is Alice in Wonderland logic. He’s the 

Mad Hatter out here. He continues to try to mislead the American people, 

first saying the cost will be zero, zero, zero, when the budget analysts 

have said it’s going to be hundreds of billions of dollars added to the 

debt. People’s taxes are going to go up. They — he said, oh, no, only if 

you make over $400,000 a year. That’s not what the tax experts are telling 

us. They say one out of three middle class Americans will pay more in 

taxes. 

So, on all of these issues and inflation across the board people saying, 

we’re looking at persistent inflation. We cannot ignore inflation. That is 

the thing that’s going to hurt our economy the most. 

GALLAGHER: You talk about Republicans. They’re against the Build Back 

Better thing. They’re also against raising the debt limit. Mitch McConnell 

said it would just enable Democratic spending. 

But “The Wall Street Journal” says, and I’m quoting here, sir, vote to 

raise the debt limit doesn’t authorize new spending but it’s essentially it 

allows the Treasury to raise money to pay for expense the government has 

already authorized. So this is to pay for things already authorized. And 

it’s important to point out, in your state alone, this is paying for things 

like almost 30,000 people getting SNAP benefits. Of course that’s food 

benefits. And 33,000 students eligible for free or reduced school lunches. 

So a lot of benefits from this to your state, Senator. Why are you against 

it? 

BARRASSO: Well, in my state, I was a member of the state senate. Our 

constitution demands that we balance our budget every year, that we live 

within our means, just like families all across America need to do. And I 

think the federal government ought to do the same thing. 

This is all about Democrat spending. This is 100 percent on them. If you 

get rid of all of the gimmicks of accounting, this bill that the Democrats 

are proposing is $4 trillion in additional spending. There’s not a single 

Republican who’s going to vote for the bill or to raise the debt ceiling. 

This is on the Democrats. 

GALLAGHER: You know, you are also the ranking member of the energy 

committee. And I want to put this up on the thing. The food, gas, 

electricity prices, we’ve seen this and we talked about this with Dr. El-

Erian. You know, the fact that food is up, gas is up 49.6 percent, 

electricity, 6.5 percent. We’re not even at the coldest part of the winter, 

Senator. It’s going to get bad for a lot of families. It’s going to get 

very expensive. 

You have the president putting 50 million barrels of oil from the reserve 

back on the market, maybe hit the market sometime mid-December. But, on the 

other hand, the president was also making it more expensive to drill on 

federal lands. Sir, how do you — how do you square the two? 

BARRASSO: It can’t be squared. The president isn’t able to do this. 

Look, today is one of the busiest travel days in America. And as people are 

hitting the road, gas prices are hitting the roof. Day one in the — in the 

White House, the president drew a target on the back of American energy, 

pulled the trigger. And now, with this Strategic Petroleum Reserve, what 

he’s doing is basically trying to put a little band aid on that bullet 

hole. 

The Strategic Petroleum Reserve is there for emergencies, national 

emergencies, war, not to cover over bad policies. The amount that he’s 

releasing is equal to what we use in this country in just two and a half 

days. And, today, in America, we’re using more oil from Russia, from 

Vladimir Putin’s Russia than we are from Alaska. 

This is a jackpot for Vladimir Putin. And what the — we have this oil in 

the ground, the president and the environmental movement will not let us 

use American oil. So, President Biden is going hat in hand to OPEC and to 

Russia saying, please, produce more oil so we can buy it from you. This is 

a disaster. It’s a major policy mistake. We need to be using American 

energy. 

GALLAGHER: And as you get to work back on Capitol hill this week, sir, 

what’s the remedy from the Republicans? What’s the remedy for this? If the 

president leads here, if the president’s moves are not the elixir, what is 

it? What do we do to get gas prices down? What do we do to get energy 

prices down and stabilized before we move into winter? 

BARRASSO: Yes, we use American energy. We stop the bans that this 

administration has on energy. You know, Senator Manchin, who’s the ranking 

member of the — who’s the chairman of the energy committee, on which I’m 

the rank member, said, let’s get the Keystone Pipeline going. There’s lots 

— we have the resources here. We are much stronger as a nation if we are 

selling energy to our friends than if we have to buy it from our enemies. 

Look, I just got back from the Persian Gulf I spend Thanksgiving there with 

the Wyoming troops and talking to military leaders. After what happened in 

Afghanistan and the disaster of the withdrawal, our enemies are much more 

aggressive. And to be giving a jackpot of additional money to Vladimir 

Putin is really in the long-term detriment of the United States. 

GALLAGHER: You talk about the Persian Gulf. What are they saying about the 

American energy policies? I mean, you know, the president has gone to OPEC 

saying, hey, we need to open the spigots a little bit and get some more oil 

on the market. What are they saying? I mean they’ve been — they’ve been 

hesitant to do that. What’s the word over there? Is there this belief the 

maybe the United States should be doing more to help itself? 

BARRASSO: Well, we ought to be doing more to help ourselves. It’s incumbent 

upon us to do that. There are ways that we — we can protect the 

environment without punishing the economy. I don’t know that the Democrats 

understand that major concept. But what I saw in the Persian Gulf was a 

much more aggressive Iran. Also we’re seeing it with communist China. We’re 

seeing it with Vladimir Putin. We’re seeing it with North Korea.

And you talked about all the things that we haven’t done yet in Congress. 

This National Defense Authorization Act, this should have been passed 

months ago, but it’s been on the back burner for Joe Biden and for Chuck 

Schumer. We never want to send our men and women in uniform into a fair 

fight. We want to make sure that they have strength, can project strength. 

We want to make sure they have the equipment, the manpower, the firepower 

that they need. And this administration, not just is wrong on energy, they 

have been very weak. This president has been weak on national defense 

because when he came into office, his first budget basically super-sized 

government on everything except for two areas where we didn’t even keep up 

with inflation. One was defense, the other was homeland security. Our 

nation deserves better. 

GALLAGHER: You make a very good point on the National Defense Authorization 

Act because now you have, you know, Russian troops amassing at the 

Ukrainian border, you have China with threatening language toward Taiwan, 

and yet the window is narrowing to get this done. I mean it’s been passed 

60 years in a row. We’re assuming that — that, you know, Congress will 

move heaven and earth to get it passed, but the window is narrowing. Well, 

how do you get this thing done quickly? 

BARRASSO: You’re right, the window is narrowing because we have that. The 

government runs out of money this Friday. We have the debt ceiling, as you 

mentioned, And Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer want to pass this massive tax 

and spending bill by Christmas. We have an entire Republican conference who 

wants to do everything we can to defeat it. I think the best Christmas 

present for the American people would be to block these increased taxes, 

block this bill that causes more inflation. And the more people know what’s 

in this bill, the worse it becomes because people really don’t like so many 

of the things that are in this bill, which is going to raise taxes and 

increase inflation. 

GALLAGHER: Senator John Barrasso, Dr. Barrasso, thank you for joining us 

this morning. We appreciate it. 

BARRASSO: Thank you, Trace. 

GALLAGHER: And, up next, we’ll bring in our Sunday group to discuss the new 

Covid developments and the impact on the health of the public and the 

economy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: The markets have dropped significantly today. What’s your 

response to that? 

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Expected. They always do when 

there’s something — when Covid rises. 

QUESTION: But does it worry you at all? 

BIDEN: Not at all. Why would it? 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: President Biden responding to questions about the massive market 

sell-off in response to the detection of a new Covid variant. 

And it’s now time for our Sunday group.

Fox News contributor Karl Rove, congressional correspondent for “The 

Washington Post,” Jackie Alamany, and Fox News political analyst Juan 

Williams. 

Welcome to all three of you. Great to see you.

Karl, to you first. You heard the president say there that he’s not really 

concerned about what happened to the market on Friday, dropped 2.5 percent. 

Oil was down. You had, you know, energy prices down across the board. Do 

you buy that, that he’s not concerned about what’s happening with the 

omicron variant to the economy? 

KAR ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, sure, they absolutely are concerned 

about it and they ought to be. This — this has been — we’re now in the 

second year of the pandemic. They’ve — we’ve got a new challenge. We — 

there are a lot of variables that we don’t yet understand and, of course, 

it’s going to have an economic impact. We’ve had more people die this year 

than we had die of Covid last year. The administration, which sort of 

suggested when it came aboard that this was going to be able to put this 

all in the rearview mirror by July 4 is clearly not able to do that.

And this is the problem with a pandemic, there are so many variables and so 

many unknowns that we have to deal with that it’s hard for policymakers to 

get their hands around it. 

GALLAGHER: Yes, Karl.

You know, and Juan, we — Karl makes a very good point, we’ve got vaccines, 

we’ve got therapies. Covid just won’t go away. You know, we talked earlier 

about this. The president made this comment when he was candidate Biden 

about the president at the time, President Trump, and the death toll. 

Watch this and I’ll get your response on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (October 22, 20202): Two hundred 

and twenty thousand Americans dead. Anyone who’s responsible for that many 

deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: There are now 350,000 deaths, Juan. You know, the president ran 

on Covid and now it appears to be undermining him. Your thoughts? 

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: I don’t think that’s what the 

polls show. I think people, in fact, you know, his poll numbers have 

declined, Trace, but one of his strength has been his handling of Covid. 

And what we see is that people who are unvaccinated are the ones who are 

getting and dying from this terrible disease.

I think when you think about this, though, I don’t think there’s a reason 

for us to all freak out. I think what the president was saying in terms of 

his reaction to the economic numbers on Friday is that we have the basic 

tools to manage this. We know about a vaccine. We have a vaccine and we 

have to see if it has to be adapted to this new virus — new variant, I 

should say. And we know about masks. We know about social distancing. So we 

have the basic tools in place and now we are trying to limit the spread 

with this travel ban. 

I think that he has in mind the idea that we can deal with this. The goal 

being, I think others have said this, that even as we deal with this as a 

medical issue, we keep the economy strong. And so far, right now, the 

economic numbers overall have been good. So if Friday is a blip, as we hope 

it might be, it would be because we are showing strong leadership on Covid. 

GALLAGHER: Yes, and, Juan brings up numbers, Jackie, so let’s put them on 

the screen. These are the president’s approval numbers, you know, right 

there at 41 percent, disapproving at 52 percent. They’ve been there for a 

while. 

And Juan makes a good point, Jackie, that his numbers on Covid — I mean 

his number on the border, on Afghanistan were just in the tank, but his 

numbers on Covid were — were fairly good and he can ill afford to lose 

that support that he has had on Covid. And with a new variant coming in and 

his handling and not being concerned about the economy, that might end up 

hurting him, or will it not, Jackie? 

JACQUELINE ALEMANY, “WASHINGTON POST” CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, 

we 

haven’t seen the administration — we haven’t seen their full, robust 

response to this yet. So I think what we’re going to see going forward is 

this White House continue to apply pressure on American pharmaceutical 

companies to share their formula more widely with the rest of the world 

going forward and maybe sort of tweak the approach that they’ve taken to 

the global pandemic so far. 

And we have seen lots of criticism from the WHO previously about richer 

countries hoarding vaccinations throughout the course of 2021. You’ve seen 

scientists continually warn the Biden administration and other global 

economies and governments that so long as there is a big vaccination gap 

between developed countries and less developed countries, the pandemic is 

going to remain a problem throughout the world, including in countries 

where vaccination rates are higher. The WHO has previously called the 

hoarding and stockpiling of vaccines as immoral and something that’s self-

defeating, but we actually see real world repercussions here when it comes 

to our economy. So I think that’s what we’re going not see the Biden 

administration focus on ongoing forward. 

GALLAGHER: And that’s a good point, Karl. And you can kind of expound on 

that if you would for me because we’re going to move subjects. But the 

whole idea here of a travel ban, you know, coming in these South African 

countries, you know, shouldn’t — and a lot of critics saying, hey, we need 

vaccines. We don’t need be to isolated. We don’t need these kind of travel 

bans. What we need is help from the United States. 

What do you make of the travel ban, you know, considering that you go back 

to when President Trump initiated that travel ban and there was a lot of, 

you know, people saying that President Biden intimated that it was 

xenophobic of the president. Of course, the campaign pushed back on that 

But what do you think of the ban, quickly, Karl? 

ROVE: Well, I think it’s wise. But the problem for President Biden is he 

did politicize this in a — in the campaign last year. He didn’t intimate 

that it was an example of hysteria, xenophobia and fearmongering, those 

were his exact words. And then we had Vice Presidential Candidate Kamala 

Harris saying if Donald Trump tells me that I need to take something, to 

take it, I won’t take it, attacking the idea of a vaccine. So the 

politicization of the issue last year is an overhang.

You’re right, his numbers are so-so on Covid, but they used to be pretty 

darn good. They have declined over the course of the year. And part of it, 

I think, is, is that they made the mistake of politicizing it last year 

and, as a result, there’s a political reaction of much of what he does this 

year. 

But it was the right thing to do, to have the travel ban. It may be 

temporary, as Dr. Collins suggested, but it was an important thing to do.

GALLAGHER: Yes. 

Juan, President Biden is being forced to reimplement, of course, the remain 

in Mexico policy by the courts. The DHS said this, quoting here, about 

Secretary Mayorkas. The secretary recognizes that MPP likely contributed to 

reduced migratory flows, but it did so by imposing substantial and 

unjustifiable human cost on migrants who were exposed to harm while waiting 

in Mexico.

So what he’s saying is, yes, the remain in Mexico policy worked, but we 

don’t like it, Juan. 

WILLIAMS: Well, yes. And picking up on what everyone is saying here, I 

think it’s important to note that this new policy that will be reinstated 

this week, one, has to be approved by the Mexican government but, wo, 

includes Covid protection for anyone coming in under the new rules.

But, you know, it’s not an affirmation of what happened in the previous 

administration with regard to separating families, you know, the mal-

treatment of children that’s now ending up in the courts.

I think what we’re seeing here is the Biden administration saying, we are 

looking for strategies that work and we don’t really have one at the 

moment. And it calls to mind that no matter if you’re President Bush, 

President Obama, President Trump and now President Biden, you get no help 

from the Congress, Trace .So it all comes down to the president having to 

come up with executive action policies that are controversial and 

temporary. We need Congress to get involved and really pass some effective, 

you know, immigration legislation with regard to security on the border, 

legal immigration and the dreamers. 

GALLAGHER: Yes. And, Jackie, you know, you look down the road six months, 

three months, and if this policy, remain in Mexico, works, as we’ve seen 

that it has and as Secretary Mayorkas has already acknowledged it has, will 

the Biden administration take credit? If the border’s suddenly — the 

encounters slow to a trickle because of this remain in Mexico policy, do 

you foresee the Biden administration saying, see, Kamala Harris is doing a 

fantastic job? 

ALEMANY: I’m not sure I can project whether or not the Biden administration 

is going to take credit for this. But I think, at the moment, Joe Biden is 

going to have to explain why he is, yet again, going back on some of his 

campaign promises to undue the hardline immigration policies that we saw 

with the Trump administration. And this is something that he campaigned on 

and now you’ve seen this administration backtracking, saying that they want 

this to happen. 

Although I do have to note that our reporting shows that it’s not likely to 

imminently happen. The Mexican government said there are still various 

conditions that they need to see from the U.S. government before the policy 

can be implemented again. That includes providing more legal aid to some of 

the migrants who are seeking asylum in the U.S., along with the Covid 

protection that we’ve seen the — the U.S. government already vow to 

implement, which includes providing vaccinations for some of those migrants 

while they go back to Mexico to wait for their asylum hearings. 

GALLAGHER: Yes, though it is important to note that the vaccines can’t be 

mandated. The Supreme Court said that. And Mexico apparently is now kind of 

warming up to the idea of maybe reinvigorating this remain in Mexico 

policy, trying to get these people away. 

Karl Rove, Jackie Alemany, Juan Williams, thank you all for coming on. And 

we very much appreciate it. 

ROVE: Thank you. 

WILLIAMS: Good to be with you, Trace.

GALLAGHER: We will see you next Sunday.

Up next, our “Power Player of the Week.” Chris, once again, dances with the 

turkeys. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GALLAGHER: Well, here’s a holiday riddle we ask every Thanksgiving, who 

founded a huge tech company, created a successful cosmetic business and now 

raises turkeys like the Native Americans did? 

Once again here’s Chris Wallace with our “Power Player of the Week.”

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDY LERNER, OWNER, AYRSHIRE FARM: Farm with the land. Farm with the 

seasons. Know your soil. Know your rainfall. Know your — know your 

weather. Know your animals. 

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR (voice over): Sandy Lerner is talking about 

sustainable farming, raising livestock and growing vegetables without the 

chemicals that are so common in what she calls factory farming. 

Just days before Thanksgiving, she took me out to see, and, yes, to dance, 

with her 1,300 turkeys. Heritage breeds that trace back to the Indians. 

LERNER: Come on, raise your arms, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble! 

Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble!

WALLACE: Lerner is mistress of Ayrshire Farm, 800 acres in Upperville, 

Virginia. But as interesting as her business is how she got here. 

She grew up on a farm in California, making enough from raising cattle to 

send herself to college.

LERNER: What I learned was to love work. I’m really happiest when I’m 

engaged in — in working and thinking and — and striving. 

WALLACE: She got into computers. In 1984, she and her then husband started 

Cisco Systems that found a way to link networks of computers, the 

foundation of the Internet. 

But six years later, venture capital people were running Cisco. 

WALLACE (on camera): How do you get fired from a company that you started? 

LERNER: We just basically got taken to the cleaners. And part of that was, 

if you don’t have an employment contract. I got fired by the same guy who 

fired Steve Jobs. 

WALLACE (voice over): Lerner had a second act. She started a cosmetics 

company called Urban Decay with edgy colors for women like her. And in 

1996, she bought Ayrshire Farm. 

LERNER: It’s historically been people who had disposable income who made 

strides in farming. Look at George Washington or look at Thomas Jefferson. 

You’re such a pretty girl because pretty is as pretty does. 

WALLACE: She raises Shires, warhorses that go back centuries, Scotch 

highland cattle, and those turkeys, which she says taste better because of 

the lives they lead. 

WALLACE (on camera): How much is an Ayrshire turkey cost as compared to 

what I’d get in the grocery store? 

LERNER: Well, our turkeys are expensive. They’re between — I think they’re 

running this year about $160 to $200. 

WALLACE (voice over): At those prices there are questions about how to make 

this kind of farming profitable. But while Lerner is determined to run a 

sound business, it’s not just about the bottom line. There’s a 40 room 

mansion on the farm. 

WALLACE (on camera): What’s it like living there? 

LERNER: I don’t know. 

WALLACE: What do you mean?

LERNER: I live in a little log cabin and I love it.

WALLACE: Do you think you’re a bit eccentric? 

LERNER: I am now that I’m rich. I used to just be weird. 

WALLACE (voice over): And so, just days before Thanksgiving, Sandy Lerner 

and I danced with the turkeys. She grew up on a family farm and she wants 

to see those values live on. 

LERNER: I’m a cowgirl. I can tell what cows are thinking. It’s very much my 

success as a farmer, which is what George Washington was. He — he wanted 

to be a really good farmer. And I think I’ve — I’ve been a — I’ve become 

a good farmer. 

(END VIDEOTAPE) 

GALLAGHER: And this year Sandy raised 300 turkeys, selling all but 25, 

which they donated to frontline workers.

And that is it for today. Chris will be back next week, live from the 

Reagan National Defense Forum at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, 

California. That is next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.

Meantime, I’m Trace Gallagher. Have a great Thanksgiving weekend.

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